was there heaven before jesus

The purpose of the unbeliever’s judgment will contain condemnation and retributive justice (Rev. For us, it is past, but it was still through Christ. As I read your comments and questions, I am struck by the fact that by them, you have described a god that is not the God of the Bible. Thus, after the final judgment, there will be a new heavens and a new Earth, which will be not only the restoration of Eden, but the fulfillment of what Eden would have been had sin not entered in. It was not to earn salvation. Was There No heaven Before Jesus.? This would indicate Abraham being in heaven before Jesus came to earth. Going back to Jesus’ apostles, who spoke with him after his resurrection, there seems to have been an understanding that Jesus descended into Sheol, and did two things: The latter of these was not evangelism, but a pronouncement of judgment upon those spirits in Hades. Or perhaps there’s two ways to Heaven – if we keep the law God might accept us – hmmm! Does it seem probable that only a few people are in heaven now….Elijah, Enoch, and Moses, ? Hades, on the other hand, remains in tact, and those who die apart from faith still go there. Jesus is in heaven. However, the believer’s judgment will serve the purpose of reward and testimony to God’s grace. Your second question concerning judgment is very important. (and, says Paul, the proof of this is that Jesus was raised from the dead). But what other instances are there indicating Christ’s pre-existence with God the Father? And on top of a that, who ever said gods name was god anyway? Now, the means for salvation has always been the same: Faith. In what is recognised as the longest sermon in…, We meet every Sunday morning & evening to worship God. Abraham believed God. I am eight years old. The earth shook, the rocks split and the tombs broke open. Does the bible ever speak of Jesus as a child? The folks who died before Christ were sort of “on pause” until he died on the cross? (Please use the Mountain Highway entrance), How Did People go to Heaven Before Jesus’ Death and Resurrection? earlier question asked will jew christian and Muslim all meet in heaven coz they believe in the same god. Third, shortly before His death, Jesus predicted in John 12:27-31 the prince of this world “will be driven out [of heaven].” Putting these three facts together, the following passage makes perfect sense: “At this, she [Mary] turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus. Hades, like Abraham’s Bosom, was/is a holding place or waiting room for the souls of those who have died apart from faith, and though those in Hades suffer torment presently, one day Hades will be emptied into the Lake of Fire, meaning that Hades is not the final destination for those who have died apart from faith. It atoned for the sins of the OT saints as well as the NT saints. Where were Moses and Elijah if not in heaven? Some view Paradise has a temporary holing place for OT saints, however the use of this word in the NT makes it clear that it is a reference to Heaven (2 Cor. He gave Jesus to die on the cross to take our punishment, our judgement, on himself in our place. Abraham’s Bosom was a place of comfort for those who died in faith. But passages such as Philippians 2:6–8 make clear the full deity and full humanity of Jesus Christ. Or they went to heaven based on the future? Nineteen times Jesus made reference to God the Father dwelling in Heaven: Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven. Christ’s death paid the penalty for past sins of Old Testament saints and future sins of New Testament saints. No one, either prior to the cross or since the cross, would ever be saved without that one pivotal event in the history of the world. And if not, how could he have not sinned if he did not know? Trust in the God of the Bible. There’s no mistake in Jesus’s mind that heaven is a real, physical place. There he waited for Jesus to open the Gates of Heaven along with the rest of the OT saints. Stephen: Another Messenger Rejected | Acts 7:1-53. That is why it says in Hebrews 12, that Moses could foresee Christ, even Moses. Jesus died for everyone before and since so we could all go to Heaven and be pure enough to be with our God. Is there room to view this second death from Hades to the Lake of Fire as one of annihilation? He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.). If we trust in Jesus we are saved. Like a nightclub, but different. God has always existed and the Son was born from God before the creation of the universe, before anything was made. If only that were the case. At the end of the age, when Old Testament and New Testament believers alike stand before their Redeemer, we are told that “He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.” (Revelation 21:3). You die and your soul goes either to everlasting bliss or torment (or purgatory en route). 2:7). From now on you do know him and have seen him.”. Post was not sent - check your email addresses! What about dead bodies in graves who will get a glorified body? Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. 27:50-53 you asked if this is a “case of getting glorified bodies”. There was nothing robotic about the redemption of the Old Testament saints. It was to demonstrate the reality of it. If someone says that they trust in God, but refuse to trust in Jesus, then they don’t trust in God. If Jesus opened the gates of Heaven at the resurrection, that implies that there were no humans in heaven prior to that. It’s very simple: there is a God who made you. I could not believe in that kind of god either; what would be the point? Many people aswered that belief in Jeasus was the criteria for entry into heaven. Hades, as part of Sheol, is the dwelling place of dead human souls. In the light of this claim of Christ, how did people prior to Jesus redeeming work on the cross get to heaven; were they saved some other way? Was he not man? John Calvin even wrote a treatise against it. (Revelation 20:13-15), Heaven, as it is now experienced, is different than what will be after the final judgment, where Revelation 21 tells us that there will be a new heavens and a new Earth, for the first heaven and the first Earth will have passed away, and will be no more. They do not sleep to awake at the resurrection. 2 Peter 3:7 says, But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. Is not the above passage the case of getting glorified bodies? Keep studying the Word, and feel free to send more questions to me by filling out this form. “we are sinners”. Why did they appear to people (which indicates that they would have been known to certain people)? This is the second death, the lake of fire. It’s hard for me to pick up the bible and read it when I don’t believe the miracles that Jesus did, or that a snake spoke, or even the imacculate conception. Since they had not yet been redeemed through the death and resurrection of Jesus, they could not go to Heaven, so this was a sort of holding place, or waiting room for the souls of the Old Testament believers who died in faith, trusting not in their own works or performance to garner them favor before God, but casting themselves on God’s mercy and grace to save them through the Messiah who was to come. I am accountable to God in Jesus Christ who will judge the secrets of all mens hearts, and so are you. I like the way MacArthur answers this question. Or do we waste our energy and time asking questions that detract from the main thing, “What will we do with Christ?”. And you don’t need to know everything to have faith in Jesus. For those readers who might share similar questions to Andrew’s, click on the tab at the top of this page, “What is the Gospel?”). People go to heaven by God's grace. I REST in Him, and I hope one day you will too. Luke 16:19-31 gives us insight to this through the story of the rich man and Lazarus: Lazarus, a poor man who died in faith, is taken to Abraham’s bosom, whereas the rich man who died apart from faith is taken to Hades. The price for this redemption was paid by Jesus’ death in man’s place. If he wasn’t the only way before he existed than why can’t we get to heaven by just believing in “God”. That is the universal presence of Jesus as God – it is omnipresent. Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? If people have free will to believe or not believe in jesus as their savior at our current time then why wouldn’t people of the Old Testament have the same? 2. It was counted him for righteousness. was crucified, died, and was buried; How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Pay it forward, you’re good for it, if you bring a girl along they’ll let you in? 2 Kings 2:11, "Then it came about as they were going along and talking, that behold, there appeared a chariot of fire and horses of fire which separated the two of them. Is this saying that people didn’t go to Heaven before Jesus’ death and resurrection? What about before Jesus? So they are certain that he is alive again. When you guys were talking about if people were saved prior to Jesus coming to earth. They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people. Were they able to (do so) through obeying the Old Testament laws? The remaining are waiting asleep (knowing nothing) until their blessed redeemer comes again in the clouds of glory to take all of his sons & daughters home to heaven, [The following response was written by Pastor Martin Pakula and posted by Don.]. We have sinned against that God. Recently I’ve also been thinking about whether or not there are demons in hades (or are able to at least go in and out of hades), or if they are currently only roaming the earth. The Ascension is very important to Christians because it ended Jesus’ earthly ministry, even though He still actively works in His church today since He is the Head of the church, but it signaled the beginning of the work of His disciples to fulfill the Great Commission (Matt 28:19-20). They didn’t know who Christ was. Between the two parts of Sheol, the story tells us, is an uncrossable chasm, and there is no escape. The Bible reveals that no human beings have yet ascended into heaven (John 3:13 John 3:13 And no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. Change ), You are commenting using your Twitter account. This is, I believe, what Revelation refers to as the first resurrection (Revelation 20:5). Required fields are marked *, 5 Burwood Hwy, Wantirna VIC 3152 I personally believe that when the bible references predestination, this is that. So, I believe, the OT people were saved by faith in God. Because God loves us, he has provided through Christ’s death, burial and resurrection a way of escape from the penalty of our sin. Is the Book of Esther Fictional? that’s not the way it should look to me Is it after Jesus’ second coming and final judgement? Your email address will not be published. It seems his story starts at age 30. Matthew 27:52-53 is a fascinating passage of which there are numerous interpretations. (John 14:6-9) Jesus said to him, “I am l the way, and the truth, and the life. Did he not think bad thoughts as a child? Christians, both Jew and Gentile, who have died since Jesus go to be with Jesus in heaven with them. That is, when Christians die, they go to be with the Lord. They would die in the flesh, but be made alive in spirit form. In John 3:13, Jesus says, “No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven-the Son of Man,”. How does that mesh with the fact that Jesus conversed with Moses and Elijah at the Transfiguration. The following is the closest I am able to find in trying to answer your question from a Catholic perspective. One has faith in themselves, and not in God. The criminal who was converted on the cross next to our Lord was told that after he died he would be with Christ in Paradise (Luke 23:43). He introduced himself as “I am”, never god. He is everywhere. Or a teen? But knowing the God of the Bible, it should not be troubling to us. Now, he didn’t understand all there was to know about Jesus Christ, but he understood enough to know that he was a sinner and needed a savior and God would provide a savior. My first question: If I as a true believer of Christ die today, when will I be in Heaven? Is not this judgement already done? So in that respect, Christ’s redeeming work on the cross transcends time. Romans 4:22-25 The writer of the New Testament book of Hebrews spends considerable time developing the idea that people of the Old Testament, like believers today, were saved by their trust or faith in God. Those who die now in faith in Jesus go to Heaven, i.e. He is our creator and sustainer, and I trust you will understand when I say that there is a certain irony when you say “I can’t believe that these things happened”. Back to the question. Jesus' sacrificial death on the cross is sufficient across all time barriers. Again, another great question. – Longmont Pastor, Blog Two: A Blakean Consciousness of the World – Nicola's Blog, All of Christianity is Eschatological – Longmont Pastor, What Has Happened to Me Has Really Served to Advance the Gospel, Reader Questions: End Times and Bible Translation. Does it Really Belong in the Bible? This claim eliminates all other 'religious' pathways to God. What verses can you share with me about this? Also. (Ephesians 4:8), Preached to the spirits in prison (1 Peter 3:19-20). he descended to hell. But only after Jesus rose from the dead and ascended into Heaven himself would these people rise and take their spots. It was His death, His sacrifice. Christ, alone, can save. Who were they? Therefore, it is impossible to discuss what happened "when" there was no universe as time did not exist as we understand it. If you don’t believe the miracles of Jesus, then you clearly can’t believe that He died, was buried and rose again either. Before Jesus came, some people did trust in God, and were saved on that basis. The Apostles Creed, one of the oldest Christian creeds, includes this phrase: He suffered under Pontius Pilate, In the meantime, we must decide what we will do with the truth God has revealed to us. The believer will experience judgment (Rom. The pre-existence of Christ asserts the existence of Christ before his incarnation as Jesus.One of the relevant Bible passages is John 1:1–18 where, in the Trinitarian interpretation, Christ is identified with a pre-existent divine hypostasis (substantive reality) called the Logos or Word. While he blessed them, he parte… Thanks for these great questions! When it comes to judgment, there are two kinds of judgment (retribution and remunerative). One has faith in God/ Jesus. One assumes that this question is asked in the light of this exclusive claim of Christ in response to Philip’s question. Thank you again and have a blessed day! I am suggesting that you can’t believe because you have created in your mind a lesser god, a non-god. The Gates were opened by the death and resurrection of Jesus. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. He had no knowledge or belief in a Jesus existing in heaven in his own day. Hi Andrew! The truth will not go away, and in our consciences we know that-. Just have a lot of questions. Just hard for me to trust that those things happened. No one had ascended to heaven prior to Jesus. Change ). This was not the first resurrection spoken of in Scripture and nor was it the resurrection of all OT saints. Hades, on the other hand, was a place of torment for those who died apart from awareness of their shortcomings and apart from faith and trust in God’s mercy and grace. Is this saying that God is present in Hell? Second Kings 2:11 records Elijah being taken to heaven by a whirlwind with chariots of fire separating him from Elisha. Andrew, thanks for your apparently sincere comments. Read this. He is right to judge us. Thanks Pastor Nick for covering and clarifying this! That is trust in Jesus’ death on the cross to pay for our sins: that he died in our place, taking on himself the judgement we deserve for our sins. And when believers get to heaven, the answers to these questions will be known. Thanks for your comments. 20:11-15). It’s not some sort of “thing” you have to have in quantity. And, every time they sacrificed a lamb, and every time they sacrificed a ram, and every time they sacrificed a turtle dove or a pigeon, every time they sacrificed any animal, it was the picture of Christ, the picture of Christ, the picture of Christ. Hi, Andrew. Thank u for that. Faith just means “trust”. When one acknowledges that due to his sinful nature, he is spiritually dead, accepting that there is no good in himself that deserves God’s favour, and accepts by faith God’s provision of grace, he is redeemed, made new, born again, ie. And 2 Peter 3:10 says, But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed. 5:10) and this will determine degree of eternal reward (Luke 19:17-19). Jesus is held dear by many for his loving, compassionate and forgiving ways, but one must come to grips with this claim. American King James Version ×). And, at any given point in the unfolding revelation of the Word of God, salvation came through faith, believing God. b) that we were created by Someone who knows us intimately, Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. It’s not very hard to understand. A careful reading of this text makes it clear that not all OT saints were raised in this event, but “many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised” (emphasis mine). Project Greatest Gift 2020: A Ministry to Kids in Kinship Care in Northern Colorado, The Gospel of Caesar Augustus, & What It Tells Us About the Gospel of Jesus Christ. '” Ps. However, Scripture teaches that there will be a formal judgment. And I believe you said quote, “Christ’s redemptive work had ‘already’ paid the price for their sins.” Not to take it out of context, but if Christ paid the price for the OT people then why did he have to visit hell and proclaim the Gospel? It negates the validity of all other claims and indeed, excludes all other so called prophets and deities. The third day he rose again from the dead. Genesis 5:24; 2 Kings 2:11 and John 3:13. Augustine is credited with this saying, “The new is in the Old concealed; the old is in the New revealed.”. sickness, pain), and that the Tree of Life is there. Thank you for your great questions. I thought it would be good to revisit these questions. It seems that in the time between Jesus’ death and resurrection, Jesus descended into Sheol and released those from Abraham’s Bosom and led them to Heaven. Everyone is saved through Christ. (7) If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. If salvation is only attained through faith in Jesus Christ, how were people in the Old Testament saved, ie before Jesus’ death and resurrection? Faith is the key; the common denominator. In Luke 16:19-30, Jesus shares an account of Lazarus in heaven at Abraham's side. They are not dead to us forever. The Lord said to Satan, ‘From where have you come?’ Satan answered the Lord and said, ‘From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it. Jesus had to be first. Thank you for answering my questions. Even the brightest minds in the first few centuries of the church struggled to explain this reality! And Jesus will see to it that what God wants done is finally carried out. It was their faith that was counted as righteousness. They believed God’s word as much as was revealed to them, and knew their own sinfulness. This heresy comes from a misunderstanding of a common phrase in the New Testament that speaks about believers falling asleep (eg 1 Thessalonians 4:13). Before Jesus came, some people did trust in God, and were saved on that basis. Whereas Eden was a garden, the New Jerusalem will be a garden city. If I ascend to heaven, you are there! And, they didn’t know specifically when and how and all of that, but they believed God. Revelation 20:11-15 describes how, after the judgement of the living and the dead at the end of all things, Hades will be cast into the Lake of Fire. They were saved by faith in Christ. In Hebrews 11, sometimes known as the “gallery of faith” or the “faith hall of fame,” we have a sampling of Old Testament saints whose lives pleased God. Many Bible scholars believe Jesus appeared on earth centuries before his Bethlehem birth, not as a man, but as the Angel of the Lord.The Old Testament includes more than 50 references to the Angel of the Lord. But you can know enough to trust in him. All humans who have died (even those who have had God's Spirit dwelling within them) are waiting in their graves for the return of Jesus Christ to … The sequential nature of time is a constraint of humans, but not of God who is eternal and transcends time. The time now comes for Jesus to go back to heaven. Jesus made the way so simple and so easy for us: “I am the way, the truth and the life, no-one comes to the Father, but by me”. Jesus was not teaching that no one had ever gone to heaven before. Should Christians Be Concerned About the COVID Vaccine? However, if they did receive glorified bodies, this would be a foretaste of what will happen at Christ’s return. Jesus said in Matthew 24:35 that Heaven and Earth will pass away, but his words never will. But the God of the Bible is all powerful, all knowing, self-existent, without any limitations. ( Log Out /  What did he believe? I think Christianity is simple enough for a young child to believe and be saved. Yes NONE of us will know ANY of these answers until we die. At the Reformation one of the heresies that the Reformers combated was what is called “soul sleep”. There are over two billion Christians in the world, the vast majority of whom believe in heaven and hell. Hence Christ’s bold statement in John 14:6 “no one comes to the Father except through me”. The Bible is there for everyone to read. I’m sorry but, truth is never this hard to figure out. So, they had to know that there was coming one who would pay the penalty for their sins, one ultimate sacrifice. The real question is, have we accepted through faith this free gift of salvation? Only the Father and Son were not made. "Those who died before Jesus never had the opportunity to trust in him because His crucifixion hadn't happened yet, but they were saved by faith the same as we are," he added. Jesus atoned for those before, during, and after Him, providing the cleansing needed to be with God. If Old Testament saints can go to heaven without knowing or trusting Jesus, why can’t people today get to heaven by simply obeying the Ten Commandments? Who died in faith in Jesus – they will do with the rest of these answers until we.! Struggled to explain this reality die and your soul goes either to everlasting or... During, and were saved by faith in Jesus and after him, “ am. Wouldn ’ t believe these things happened an account of Lazarus ( John 11:38-44 ) singing hymns songs. All meet in heaven coz they believe in it is very hard who all will before! Not the way i see it is past, but refuse to trust in God, they to... 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