It also seems possible that he objected to the message of salvation by faith, as Paul impresses to his readers that the very things that repelled him had become the core of his message. Ergo, this notion that Paul didn’t believe Jesus was a walking, breathing human being is flat out absurd. Are You Interested in a Platinum Membership? So, 1. it is a mystery what it could have been that Paul objected to so strenuously and 2. there might have been believers in Jesus before Paul but they were not Christians. I’ll look for it. Unless, I suppose, he was adopted as a son by Joseph in the Roman fashion – this seems improbable for a Jewish family. I, personally, am willing to believe that it was during that time he received great instruction. It seems reasonable that Paul would have known considerably about the historical Jesus based on his interactions with Christians while he was persecuting the movement, and later from his interactions with James, Peter and John. Is Suffering a Problem for Those Who Suffer? It seems to me that if Jesus was descended from David, that must be through his father by definition. Answer: The Bible, clearly, does not tell us how the gospel writers, for example Matthew, knew what Jesus said in his conversation with the Father in the garden. 9. Non-believers would say it was a hallucination. Please ask only one question per comment posted. I don’t think people who have hallucinations are psychotic. Thank you for taking time to patiently and sincerely commenting on my question Many people use Paul’s writings as proof that Jesus is God. Historians can’t show it one way or the other. Moreover, since he insisted that Jesus was a descendent of David, he must have believed that Joseph was Jesus’ father. Certainly, Paul’s use of Jesus as an example of a human being who was raised from the dead would make absolutely no sense if Paul didn’t believe that Jesus was a flesh and blood human being at some point. It would be indeed highly speculative if they didn't have any fine conversation, since Paul regarded himself as one of the apostles and in principle, they should work together instead of Paul alone grabbed away all the limelight. Paul was a couple of years younger than Jesus. Please keep your comments relevant to the issues discussed in the post. Trip #1: 36 A.D. Yes…I do understand, especially regarding historians … yet I think that question is the key to understanding Paul. If he was not descended through Joseph, that is via the Holy Spirit, then he cannot have been descended through David. But we have to start the narrative somewhere and it begins for us with Paul and his writings(and how much was doctored) – although Paul personally didn’t know Jesus except by ” vision”. Top Answer. If the encounter (vision) of the risen Christ did not happen, then what Paul preached was wrong. Schedule recurring donations to Bart's foundation using the form below. Have you thought about whether the disciples were actually Jesus’ personally chosen 12 or whether they were placed in the narrative gospels because they were the most widely known preachers after Jesus’ death? . Most students are surprised to find that if they simply make a list of what Paul says about Jesus between the time of his birth and the time of his death, they don’t need much more than a 3×5 card. of which we no longer have any record. there's no reason to believe tha paul didn't know jesus. 5, v. 21). Comments posted must be limited to 200 words or less. o_O. If these are what they believed, then they were still Jews, not Christians. This question would be more relevant if we knew more about the extent of his writings. Did that happen or did it not happen? It is very unlikely that they believed the messiah had anything to do with forgiving personal sin. Jesus and Paul. This link between Paul and Jesus are vital for the first steps towards definitive gentile Christianity. In Galatians chapters 1-2, Paul explains that he took two different trips to Jerusalem to see the Jerusalem apostles. Or that he simply doesn’t think people will believe him unless he swears to it. Wordsworth also, in loco , holds that ἐπίστ . Death, punishment. How much did Paul actually know about the historical Jesus? Did St. Paul know Jesus? Do you have others in mind? In Acts 23 we have mention of Paul’s father who was a Pharisee (v 6), his sister, and his nephew (v16) who saves him from a plot against his life. Paul obviously believed he had actual historical visions. Could Paul’s Letter to the Philippians be TWO Letters? I’m pretty convinced, from my personal research, that Paul must have been familiar with an Aramaic or Hebrew Urgospel that he probably came in contact with when he visited the Jerusalem congregation. None of the scholars (and even non scholars) I have asked will comment much on these vision(s) of Paul. 15.5, 1 Thess. What did Paul deserve? But there is a second, equally interesting question. How did the circumstances of his birth become such an important part of his story? Engaging Discussions about Early Christianity, Since April 2012, this blog has raised over. Now it’s certainly possible that Paul simply identified the bright light as Jesus on the basis of the words he heard, but it is interesting that Paul listed himself in the context of hundreds of eyewitnesses who actually saw Jesus. As we know, Paul has an encounter with the resurrected Jesus. I don’t know why. While it is possible that John and Jesus, though cousins, did not know each other, this seems unlikely. He never met Jesus personally, he wanted to arrest Jesus’s followers but then the Lord blinded him. . Paul did not de-regulate the Jewish laws on food. FOR THE REST OF THIS POST, log in as a Member. .--Better, Jesus I acknowledge. In the first few years after Jesus’ death, it is most probable that most Jews who believed in Jesus believed he was the messiah who would restore Israel and usher in the Kingdom of God. Obviously if he did, then their teachings would not be contradictory. NT Pod 44: What did Paul know about Jesus? died), and Paul points them to Jesus as the “first fruits” of a flesh and blood human being who died and was resurrected as a spiritual being. From the same passage, Paul knows about Jesus' resurrection. What are you basing this on? I agree that this is the best explanation. Paul's conversion experience is discussed in both the Pauline epistles and in the Acts of the Apostles. 10. (ch. Paul did this repeatedly, labeling himself as a witness who, along with the other eyewitnesses, testified to the resurrection of Jesus: If it did that radically changes and expands what Jesus said and did. I’d have thought, had I given it any thought, at least three whole pages (8×11) of single-spaced text! This seems an especially important subject, as it would place Paul’s knowledge closer to the original events. Wiki User Answered . Sorry, I don’t know which article you’re referring to. But, in summary remember: Paul, then Saul, would have understood something about Jesus' teachings. Therefore Paul certainly did claim and believe, and write in his letters that Jesus Christ literally appeared to him in a physical body. There are no "laws" for food for Christians except to not do something which would cause another to stumble. How could the Son of God possibly be betrayed? Wordsworth also, 60. Has there been much discussion, in academic circles, regarding what Paul knew about Christianity prior to his conversion? Just my opinion. Not only did Paul repeatedly mention Jesus, but he specifically stressed that Jesus had come in the flesh as a real human being. 7.10-11, 1 Cor. Does this say anything about whether Cephas was part of this body known as “the twelve”? Paul did not wish to know what Jesus Christ's true teachings were. Feel free to leave your feedback below or on Twitter or on our Facebook page. Thanks to Ram2000, Me and You, for the opening theme, released under a Creative Commons agreement. It’s hard to imagine that Paul would have become such an energetic evangelist if he did not know much about the life of Jesus and what Jesus taught. Paul Dictated His Letters: How Does *That* Complicate Finding an Original? 4.15-17. But Paul did spend 3 years in Arabia where … Posted by Mark Goodacre at 10:15 PM. The two verbs are different in the Greek, the one implying recognition of authority, the latter, as colloquially used, though originally it had a stronger meaning, a more familiar acquaintance. In his first letter to Timothy, Paul wrote: “I charge you in the sight of God, and Christ Jesus, and the elect angels, to keep these instructions . Click Here for all Posts in a List Format. Why doesn’t he say more? I’ve always wondered that. Discerning what Paul might have known about Christianity, prior to his conversion, might help us to understand what he believed (or understood) about Jesus subsequently. To enable Verizon Media and our partners to process your personal data select 'I agree', or select 'Manage settings' for more information and to manage your choices. I can only imagine that we have only the barest sampling of his letters, not enough to make any firm statements about what he knew. Paul seems to know quite a bit about the family background of Jesus as you clearly point out. Did the Gospel stories exist before the Gospels were written? But more to my original point, it seems possible that the pre-Christian Paul objected to more than the crucifixion of the messiah. I don't know if you intend to place restrictions on what constitutes "quoting Jesus" (compared to the Gospels or Acts), but these instances are at least Paul attributing commands or words to him. Find out more about how we use your information in our Privacy Policy and Cookie Policy. Whether or not he did have them and if they were authentic, he says he is not lying, and bases “his gospel” on those visions. Even then, the only apostle he met was Peter, and the only other leader he met was James, the presiding elder of the Jerusalem church. We would know that his death by official execution was Either he did or did not…I don’t know. How did the gospel writers know what Jesus was praying at Gethsemane if Jesus was a stone’s throw away from them and they were sleeping (Luke 22:41)? Oops. Paul Believed That Jesus is not God. It was not said of messiah King David nor of Judas the Galilean in 6 CE whom followers thought he was the messiah. I don't know if we know who Paul was with, but he did spend time with the disciples before embarking on his ministry. I’ll devote a couple of posts to what it is Paul says about the historical Jesus, and then at least one post, possibly more, to the question of why he doesn’t say more. Modern critical scholarship of the Bible tends to lean heavily toward skepticism. Paul is emphatic that he somehow spoke with the risen Christ. Asked by Wiki User. I don’t believe descending through the mother mattered that much. Paul's conversion occurred after Jesus's crucifixion. Do We Have Paul’s Original Letter to the Philippians? Though Paul did not walk with Jesus while he was on this earth, he did receive approval from the followers of Jesus. 8. No! I wonder what we can infer from that… Does that simply mean that Christianity was not yet a literary religion at that point? ." If you don’t belong yet, JOIN WHILE YOU HAVE A CHANCE!!! If Paul didn’t think Jesus actually existed (as scholars such as Richard Carrier and Robert Price propose) then none of Paul’s eschatology makes any sense what-so-ever. Dr. Ehrman: Apparently Paul didn’t believe that Jesus was born of a virgin, because if he did, he surely would have said so. In the book of Acts, it was a couple of months after Jesus’ death. Through Saul’s preaching, thousands of people came to know Jesus. As Paul told Herod Agrippa, the things Jesus did were “not done in a corner” (Acts 26:26). It only says Paul saw a bright light and heard a voice. The way I see it, there are four possible explanations of what happened. Said Urgospel would probably have contained am inchoate version of the gospel of Mark or Q or something like them. Scholars generally concede that we can learn almost nothing about Jesus’ life or teachings from Paul. Answer. Ok…I was thinking of a “vision” that Paul describes, not a hallucination, but they may be the same. It was frustrating to see. Unless you take the Gospels to be historical and think that Jesus actually taught that belief in him could save one from the wages of sin. With regards to Judas and The Twelve, I sometimes wonder if the betrayal was attached to Jesus’ inner circle in order to justify the betrayal itself. “What Did Paul Know About Jesus?” The Fourth R 12, no. 11.23-26, 1 Cor. Not good. “he appeared to Cephas and then to the twelve”. Paul's gospel of God describes God's designation of Jesus as Son "in power, according to the spirit of holiness" by his resurrection from the dead (Romans 1:4). I have been approaching the relationship of Jesus and Paul from only one angle, to this point – viz., did they represent fundamentally the same religion or not? If Paul did not know Jesus while He lived on this earth, then how can Paul have any authority to teach and preach the Gospel? In an earlier iteration of my Introduction to the NT class, this was what I had my students debate. . Jesus did. Why did Jesus choose to make Paul blind and not use another way? Hebrews 9:28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him. Also, his conflict with Peter pertained more to the law (i.e. What Really Happened at Jesus’ Trial Before Pilate? If he descended through Joseph, then it rather gives rise to the question of his divinity at this stage of the game. What Does It Even Mean to Have an “Original” of An Ancient Writing? Credit and Debit Cards Processed: Visa, MasterCard, Maestro, AmericanExpress, Diners Club, JCB, UnionPay, ApplePay, and GooglePay. Not necessarily, although I wrote an article once arguing that Cephas was not one of the 12 because he was a different person from Peter! For them, only God, in response to prayers, plus our repentance, could redeem a Jew from sin. Yes, in a way. How about “Resolved: Paul Knew Significant Historical Information about Jesus ” This gets it in the affirmative. the observance of the law) than the crucifixion. I couldn’t have imagined that! What is more likely is that John is speaking of the fact that he, by the Holy Spirit, has come to see Jesus in a deeper and more sublime way. It also intrigues me the fact that Paul did not write more about Jesus’s life. 13 14 15. There is quite a bit unearthed here by your research and analysis. I do not know what Noah’s food laws were, but in any case, Jesus declared all foods clean. Paul said that when Christ called him, he did not go to Jerusalem to receive instruction from the apostles. Ps…I am at the point that I look at a word in the Bible and I realize I don’t have a clue what that word means now or 2000 years ago…example…1John, “Test the spirits that they are from God.” I don’t have a clue what John means by spirits or even the context of that statement. All I can attribute it to would have been that he was so much more Hellenized than other Jews and was familiar with Greek Mystery Cults. Scholars put the birth year of Paul between 2 to 6 years after the birth of Christ. If they are, then one out of every eight of us is psychotic!! Did he deserve a new name and the blessing of writing part of the Bible? How come nobody told Paul that Jesus had come back once already Paul is our earliest extant source or what is left of early sources(seeing not much). A 3×5 card?!?!?! Some of Paul’s relatives are mentioned in the Bible. You can read this in Mark 7:17-19. At what point in all this was Matthias supposedly added to make the number of disciples once again twelve? 2015-07-16 14:33:36 2015-07-16 14:33:36. There is quite a bit unearthed here by your research … Or just the opposite, that there were already some written accounts in circulation and, therefore, he didn’t think it was necessary to write his own account? No! Evidently he believed the movement threatened Judaism and “the tradition of my fathers,” and that Christianity contained numerous objectionable beliefs, so objectionable as to merit destruction. We and our partners will store and/or access information on your device through the use of cookies and similar technologies, to display personalised ads and content, for ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. According to both sources, Paul was not a follower of Jesus and did not know him before his crucifixion. Why did Paul not mention the most well-loved Gospel stories? The man they thought was the messiah was executed and, apparently, some thought he would return to finish the job. Is it possible to teach people about the Gospel without mentioning Gospel stories? What did Paul actually know about Jesus? Good comment. It must have been one of his closest associates! I talk about the issue in several places — including on the blog when I talk about Paul’s understanding of the saying of Torah, “Cursed is he who hangs on a tree.”. Since Paul so often says that he is not lying, does that lead us to believe that people were accusing him of lying? So apparently Paul didn’t think that Jesus’ birth was in any way a miracle. That’s one option. Do you ? That is what I am trying to determine if such is even possible to determine. God used Paul to write 13 books of the Bible. In several of Paul’s letters he addresses Christians who have come to doubt whether God can resurrect those fellow Christians who have “fallen asleep” (i.e. Yahoo is part of Verizon Media. This Urgospel would probably have formed the skeletal outline of the gospel Paul would come to preach to the gentiles. Did Paul come to know Jesus personally? Learn three reasons why he experienced this divine phenomenon and the vision we should all have. (mp3) (Alternative location) Key texts: 1 Cor. Paul indicates he communicated with the Risen Christ…in some way…and was given a “gospel” message apart from Jesus’ earthly followers. The men with him heard a loud sound but didn’t see anything. But Paul says it did happen…either what he said happened or he was psychotic. Those who ascribe to the principles and methods of this so-called scientific approach to Scripture begin with the premise that what is written is not exactly what happened or was said. But I couldn’t come up with anything I liked better, and so went with it. Through his writing, millions have. He expresses in Galatians that he felt Christianity threatened the “traditions of this fathers” — did he see Jesus as one who undermined the law? 9.3-6, 1 Cor. (15) Jesus I know, and Paul I know . Did the apostles know him well and partner with him at times? I don’t know which !! I don’t think there were any written Gospels that Paul knew of — although there may have been some floating around that he had never seen. A Fund-Raising Webinar: What Can We Really Know about the Birth of Jesus?? If that is not true, it follows that, as Paul says, our faith is in vain and we are still in our sins. Ask: Did Paul deserve to be forgiven and adopted into God’s family? But we have to start the narrative somewhere and it begins for us with Paul and his writings(and how much was doctored) – although Paul personally didn’t know Jesus except by ” vision”. “Jesus I know and about Paul I know,” Rendall; Lightfoot would render “Jesus I acknowledge and Paul I know”: On a Fresh Revision of N. T., p. 60. Granted, Paul says little in his letters, but that he could have significant contact with Christians associated with the faith’s origins and NOT have known about the historical Jesus seems highly improbable. T believe descending through the mother mattered that much way…and was given a “ ”... Important subject did paul know jesus as it would place Paul ’ s followers but the. 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